OK. So, what did you write? So, I wrote,
“I am horrified with the meat industry because it is the largest, most accepted form of violence on Earth today.” “It is the largest, most accepted”– -“form of violence”–
-“form of violence”– -“in the world today.”
-Right. Is that true? It’s “Yes” or “No.” That’s a tough one
for the ego. Just “Yes” or “No”
for the first two questions. It takes a lot of stillness to– test it. “It is the largest, most accepted
form of violence in the world today.” Is it true? No. Because I don’t know
if that’s true. So, it’s still a “Yes”
for you. So, if I would do The Work on my own, at home,
I would say “Yes.” -Good.
-And then I’d have my proof. OK. -So, I’m getting you’re still a “Yes.”
-Right. So, now, can you absolutely
know that it’s true that the meat industry is the most accepted
form of violence in the world today, the largest? No. So, that’s that place
for the open mind. -Right.
-After you test it. -Do you want to know the situation
I wrote this sheet out of? -Yes.
-It was– I got an email that showed
a video of undercover footage in a slaughterhouse
in Belgium. And, so, I’m sitting
behind my computer– And these kind of situations
have happened a lot. So, I’m there,
and I’m just sort of– Yeah– horrified,
and I get really angry. And it feels like proof. Yes, it does because
you’re seeing images. How do you react,
what images of past/future happen -when you believe this thought?
-I see– Right. Numbers go through my mind. So, for example, I live in
a very small country, Holland. And there was a research
that actually showed that in my country alone
we kill 1.7 million animals per day. -Wow.
-Right. So, what happens
when I see that video? Yes, how do you react, what happens
when you think the thought, “It’s the largest most accepted
form of violence in the world today”? I see all the animals
–and it was a horrible video– I see– all the animals
that I don’t see. -Yes.
-Right. In your mind’s eye,
you see them from the past, alive, and then
you see them in the factory– Right, zillions of them, yeah. So, you see past/future, past/future
past/future, past/future, animals– And then, as you witness that,
you are furious. Yes. -Very much.
-Now, who would you be– Who would you be,
showering that night, or having dinner or whatever–
Who would you be– Find a situation,
right here, right now, OK? Right. So, who would you be
without the thought, “The meat industry is the largest,
most accepted form of violence in the world”? I’d be fine. OK. So, now tell me– With the thought,
you see the images past/future/slaughter, and then you feel furious. -Without the thought, you’re not furious.
-Yes. So, what is the cause
of your fury, your anger? The meat industry or– what you’re witnessing
in your mind’s eye? Definitely what I’m witnessing
in my mind. So, that’s not
the meat industry. That is you believing past/future images
in the moment. So, you see
the images of the– cattle in the slaughterhouse. You see that? Is that real? Or is that imagination? You can’t have it both ways,
you can’t. Not here, now, reality. Reality.
This is first-generation reality. And it is perfect.
And all your needs are met. Everything you need
to be happy is right here, now, and all you have to do
is notice. But it’s here now,
whether you notice or not. Other than
what you’re thinking and believing, this is a beautiful world. And that never changes,
no matter what. It never changes, no matter what,
it’s a friendly universe. You don’t have to like it or believe it.
It just waits for you to wake up to it. So, you see the movie and then you feel the feelings. -Yes.
-So– “The meat industry is the largest, most accepted
form of violence in the world today.” How would you
turn that around? “Fantasy is”– So, you’re suggesting to replace
“The meat industry” with “Fantasy”? Yes. Or “My thinking”– Right. Oh, definitely. My thinking is the largest,
most accepted form– of violence in your world today.
Not our world, your world today. And it just wipes people out. It can wipe out your happy life. That’s why there are things
in the world you can do little about. And it doesn’t stop you
from trying to change it. Right. But, at least, you know
the cause of your suffering. And you know
that they’re not causing it. Right. And it’s, there are two ways
of changing things. One is– out of violence and fear. And the other is just sane. -Yeah, right-
-It’s just sane. Just don’t expect
people to hear you. -Or to get it at the level you do.
-Right. And it’s definitely true
that out of that angry– Movie– I mean, I get really,
I get really violent, basically– Yes. And it’s been my experience
that that actually is not a productive state of mind
to do anything about, you know, the meat industry itself. It’s like, you take you to slaughter
every time you get lost in the dream. Right, right. And there are more productive things
we can do than believing our thoughts. Like, we can do
something about it rather than just– frighten ourselves
once we’re awake to what it is. And then, this Worksheet,
as it’s turned around, will show you how to deal
with things like this. So, let’s look
at Statement 2. “I want the meat industry to stop
being supported by the millions of people carelessly buying bodies
of beings that led miserable lives.” So, “I want
the meat industry to stop”– “to stop being supported
by the millions of people”– So, you want the meat industry
to stop being supported by millions of people. Now, the meat industry
doesn’t have a choice in the matter. We buy it or we don’t.
So, you get what you want. Right. Did you all follow that one? The meat industry
cannot make us buy meat. Right. And what you’ve written is,
“I want the meat industry to stop being supported
by millions of people.” -They have no control over that.
-Mm-hmm It’s another thing
I love about this Worksheet. We begin to think clearly– about what we want– and what’s possible. So, “I want the meat industry
to stop being supported by millions of people,”
turn it around to yourself. “I want the meat industry
to stop being supported by”– -Me?
-Yeah, you’re it. That’s it. That’s it. Now, give me an example, give me some examples
of how you can stop supporting the meat industry. By stop eating meat. That’s one. And I’d say by– supporting other industries and– -Good.
-You know– supporting alternatives– And continue to think it through.
See, this– is the answer– to what you want. But you can’t change us. Right. But you can think
in areas that– are so available to your open mind,
if you’re not busy dreaming. And you continue to dream. Just know the difference between
what’s real and what’s dreamed. Those are not real cows, and pigs and chickens. That’s your factory. Yeah. What else did you write
on Number 2? Let’s see. I wrote, “I want
the meat industry to be revealed as an industry as shameful
as we now look back at the slave industry.” OK. So, is that true
that you want them to do that? I think it would help, yes. -So, I’m pretty convinced.
-So, it’s really not good enough for you. “I think it would help, yes.” No, not good enough for you. Think of the– people who– You have to think it through,
to the people that work there, the people whose families
depend on it. the– Consider it all. Not to change your mind,
but just to educate yourself. We can’t just look at something on a screen
and just be miserable. We’re more intelligent than that,
when we’re not living in fear. We’re more powerful than– You are more powerful
than you could possibly imagine. You can’t imagine
your brilliance, you can’t, because it’s cluttered with fake news.
Past/future, past/future, fake news. So, “I want”– “the meat industry
to be revealed as”– “an industry as shameful
as we now look back at the slave industry.” Like, this has become
such a conviction. Maybe, it’s stressful.
Probably, it is. I feel that it’s just this chapter
that we’re gonna– be so ashamed about. And I sort of can’t wait for that consciousness to– So– -That is where we’re at.
-Right. So, let’s Work
with your consciousness because, if you can’t do it, how can you expect us to? -And you can’t.
-That’s a good point. So, who would you be, without putting all of that on us
and the meat industry, who would you be
without this thought? I would be fine. So, now let’s turn it around. “I want me”– “I want me to be revealed as an industry as shameful as
we now look back at the slave industry.” -I can go there.
-Yeah. -I can go there.
-OK. And you keep producing this stuff
and believing it. Now, this stuff in your head,
this past/future, it is produced. You don’t produce it,
it is produced. And you can’t stop it. But you can know the difference
between what’s real and what’s not. You can be awake– to the dream, awake to what’s
real into reality and what is fake. And once you’re awake to it,
the ego will leave it alone and try another trick. But this is your practice. It all becomes just,
“I’m awake to the dream.” And, in that,
you’re fearless and you’re clear and nothing can stop you
from making change. Because you’re in touch
with wisdom. Without all this fake news, wisdom. -Yeah, I get it.
-And there’s no ego in that. I love you get that. So, “I want me– to be revealed as that industry”– -Right.
-“In my head”– “as shameful as
when I look back at it.” I’m a slave to that industry. And that’s how you’ve been,
a slave to this. Like, you watched
the video once, and then you did this. Now, on the screen,
were those real animals -or was that a movie?
-It was a movie. So, you’ve never been to the slaughter–
Have you been to the slaughter? -I haven’t.
-You’ve never been. I’ve never seen
an animal killed, I think. So, it’s when you get clear,
take a trip, see what you’re up against. Head on. If you wanna change it. Talk to the people there,
do your research. Because you just can’t come in with,
“This is unfair!” Well, you know– That’s really true.
And I actually– Because of The Work, I did
something similar earlier this year. There is a big,
sort of a natural park in Holland, and it is designed
for animals to be wild, which is really unusual, because nothing
is wild in Holland. So, basically they, yeah– They put a big fence
around an area and they’ve just
put in animals, and sort of let them
go free and wild and not take care of them. And there was a lot of– First of all,
everybody was happy about it and we made
a movie about it and we felt proud that we had
something wild in Holland, and it was magical. And then,
there was this political party, which really gets
on my nerves– that decided that we should make it more– that, literally, that animals are there–
that nature is there for people. So, it should be open for people and there should be paths
for cycling and walking and, alright, and half of the
deer and horses should be shot. And this was on the news, and I got this, you know,
the same, like, crazy thing. And, luckily, thanks to you,
I, sort of in a– moment of clarity
to do a Worksheet on it. And I had all these thoughts
about this area, and I’d never been there. And I’d never been. I knew all the answers
and, you know, every– And, then, I was like,
well, I kind of, “I’ve never been there.” So, I went there. And it was kind of weird. Like, all the animals
were starving. And it was kind of weird. But it was so hard
for me, Katie, to– sort of open to the idea that this crazy political party
might be, like, a little bit right. Or, at least,
I wasn’t assured anymore. It was really sort of–
It was really a– -It opened your eyes.
-It did. So, we rally
and we fight and we rally and we don’t even know
what we’re talking about. Right, I know– -And we really believe we do.
(-I know.) How are we so sure
we know what’s true? Past/future,
past/future, past/future. So, stabilize it,
just like you did there, in reality. OK. So, mmm– So, let’s just try
this one on, OK? “I don’t want
the meat industry to”– “be revealed as a shameful industry”– “as we now look back
at the slave industry.” Or, “I don’t want the meat industry
to be revealed as an industry as shameful”– That’s– Well, I know one. And that is as long–
But that feels really like, uugh– OK. So, look at this. “I want you to wake up
to how shameful you are!” Right. “Because that really is
the way to wake up!” “Just shame yourselves awake!” “And then take on
the the meat industry!” Go shame them and see how far you get.
I think it will be fairly equal. So, “I want the meat industry
to be revealed as a shameful industry.” Is it true?
Is that the way? No, that’s not the way. And now notice
how you’ve lived your life, believing the thought that– “It’s wrong
and everybody’s wrong.” And that’s pretty lonely. Right. And then it’s really old. And it’s hopeless. -It’s hopeless.
-Right. It leaves you in a terrible, sick world, with no choices– -No way out.
-Right. It’s just not productive. So, who would you be,
right here, right now, without the thought, “I want the meat industry– to be ashamed of themselves”? “Or to be seen as shameful”? My first thought is,
“I’d be fine.” But there’s
this very old conditioning, and this goes back to
as long as I can remember– And I know this is irrational. But it’s like,
if I relax, if I relax– then it’s OK for– for all of that to happen.
Like, if I relax, I don’t– I condone. And I know that’s– That you’re moving
into just a low of acceptance– -Right.
-And– Loving everybody,
“loving what is.” And then you’ll be
like the rest of us. (laughter from the audience) Shameful. (laughter from the audience) I know. So, “I want the meat industry
to be revealed as something
to be ashamed of” Try “I don’t want”– “I don’t want the meat industry
to be revealed as something
we should be ashamed of.” OK. Now, why is that wiser? If you’re going to make change, if you’re really gonna make change,
that is, if you really care about this issue– Right. why is this a better strategy
to start with? It’s like, you don’t– You can threaten or anger yourself
out of something for a little while, but I feel that, like,
real change comes from– -Power.
-Right, right. -Clarity is power.
-Right. -Wisdom is power.
-Right. Also– if you approach them wisely,
whether it’s editorially or– one-on-one occasions, when you approach them,
if there is a hint of shame, if you put a hint of shame
on them, you’ve lost it. Yeah. -I’ve noticed.
-Yeah. Right. And it also doesn’t,
I mean, it doesn’t– It doesn’t feel true– -anymore, but it’s just a–
-Those thoughts– -It’s really a stronghold of my identity.
-Yeah. So– I would like that we make a date
for tomorrow morning to meet here
and continue this. -Is that good with you?
-That would be wonderful. -Good.
-Thank you. Yeah, I love that dream. -Me too.
-Me too. OK. OK. Let’s go back
to the meat industry. So– To finish off “the wants,”
there’s one more turn around. Try it, “I want,” even though we did it. “I want my thinking
to be revealed as an industry”– -It’s like, this is your life.
-Mmm. “as an industry as shameful
as I now look back at the slave that I’ve been to that, that industry.” That’s, yeah–
That fits. -Yeah, OK.
-That fits. So, let’s look
at the next one. It’s so much fun sitting with you.
I love your socks! Thank you. (laughter from the audience) -Me too.
-And your hair. I just love your jeans. And your teeth
are just brilliant. Huh! How to go on now? Thank you. The– So, this is 3.
“The meat industry should– wake up to the fact that
animals are sentient, too.” “The meat ind”– -“Are sentien–“?
-Too. Sentient too. As well, like they’re sent– Animals are sentient too,
like humans– beings. -Oh, sentient beings. Oh, OK.
-Right. So, “Animals are sentient beings.” Is it true? What’s a sentient being? What is “sentient”? -What is “sentient” to you?
-That’s capable of– I’d almost say of having
an inner world and feelings. Good, good. But I’m not sure if that’s
what the dictionary would say. Well, let’s go with it,
because that’s what you’re holding. Right. What’s important
is what you’re holding. Right. And, also, it’s really good
to keep a dictionary handy. And you have them
on your iPhones. And to test what
you’re thinking and believing to see if the word
is even correct. Mm-hmm– And, sometimes,
it won’t matter, because
you’re coming from the meaning
you’ve put on it, which is valuable,
which is what we’re dealing with. So, to me, it’s also
about not being machines– -That they’re, yes–
-Right? Like, that’s also
in it for me. -That they have feelings–
-Right. -That they have–
-Social lives. So, mmm– “Animals are sentient beings.” Is that true? This is a difficult question
for an animal lover, but not for someone
that really wants to know the truth, to really consider it. Can you absolutely know
that it’s true that animals are–? No. What does that feel like? Humbling. Yeah. That, as Leonard Cohen would say,
that’s, you know, that’s “a crack”, there’s a huge “crack in everything”.
And he says, “That’s how the light gets in.” -That’s quite a–
-Yes. Quite something to entertain. Yes. So, how do you react
when you think the thought, “Animals are sentient beings,”
and you think of the meat industry, and how they kill animals,
how they slaughter. I get– I get very– I’d say violence,
violent, anger, angry. And also overcome
with this sense of being powerless, being unable to do– Like, the magnitude of it,
it’s just– But, mostly, anger. -And we give up on the human race.
-Right. And I– I mean, it’s kind
of ridiculous, in a way, but it’s true that,
for example, now, in summer, when everybody’s barbecuing,
like I have really a hard time– that has such an image
of fun and carefree, and I smell, you know, I smell
dead bodies being roasted. Yeah. So, that’s not– And it’s not just
the dead bodies being roasted. It is the slaughter– Right. it’s all the hurt. Right. I mean, that’s unsustainable. -Yes.
-That’s kind of crazy in a way. I see that that’s crazy,
but it’s there. It’s not so crazy. How many of you experienced this
at one time or another? See, that’s not crazy. -That’s–
-Wow. No one– wants to even think about how horrible that is. No one. There are no lines standing up
to take a cruise through the slaughterhouse. We don’t want to think about it. And when we’re barbecuing, we don’t. Right. We can’t.
We don’t. But it really undermines
my connection with– I mean, my neighbors,
if they’re barbecuing. I make them into these,
you know, unreal– You make them
into less sensitive than you are. Yes. You’re up here,
they’re down there. You are conscious,
they’re unconscious. Yeah. They’re laughing
and you’re suffering. Yeah. -Closing the windows.
-Closing the windows. So, now– Who would you be without the thought,
“Animals are sentient beings too”? Now, I’m going to invite you
to The Work, the same Work that I did. OK? So, close your eyes. Now, you see
the YouTube thing where the animals were being
slaughtered that you saw? -You see that?
-Mm-hmm. OK. So– Who would you be without the thought,
“Animals are sentient beings”? Now, be one of those animals
going through slaughter, as you see it, all the way. And I invite you all
to meditate into whatever– horror you perceived that to be,
as one of those sentient beings. And continue to do it, continue to be there,
as that animal, until– you’re OK with it. Exactly what you saw as one of those, until not only
are you OK with it, you are a sentient
being there for others, for the human race. For all that’s beautiful. I am OK with it. I’m OK with it,
because it feels– like I have this sense
this is only happening to me. It’s a lot of confusion, and– and not knowing
what’s happening. But I have no story about,
I have no story about it. So, I’m just–
And I can’t imagine how that would– I mean, it’s hard
for me to imagine how that must be,
because I’m such a– human. -But if I–
-Or maybe– As a human, you seem
to be doing really well with going
into that slaughter. And being slaughtered. And it felt like
it just contrasts so– it really contrasts with– having, you know,
that whole burden of, like, all my fellow pigs, “Why is this happening to us?” But I’m just imagining, I’m just imagining– pigs not having
that capability, but I’m actually not sure
about that. Just go in
with your own consciousness. Well, and also,
the experience is so intense that I don’t have a lot of time
to think about anything. So, it’s just– You know,
an overwhelming– thing that’s happening to me. There is nothing
that is not here to serve. So, go back and continue
to be that service. Sentient being. I get this sense of– Again, it’s just such
an overwhelming– experience to be there, that there’s
just not a lot of room for– anything else. And also there’s
really no other option, other than
to go through it, which is– sort of weirdly reassuring. -You’re OK?
-I’m OK. Yeah. “The meat industry
should wake up to the fact that the animals
are sentient beings too.” Turned around, “I”– “I should wake up to the fact
that human beings are sentient too.” “That I am”– -“that I should wake up to the fact that I”–
-“that I am sentient too.” “That I, as an animal, am a sentient being too.” That’s a good one. It’s an excellent one. If you wanted to teach the human race
the horrors of being asleep, would you be that service? Yes. They’re certainly
waking you up. And a lot of hands
in this room went up. If you knew who and what
you really were, if the human race
needed to be shown, you wouldn’t hesitate to rip off
your own arm and give it to them. Sentient being. One is awake,
one is asleep. To assume animals are asleep, or to assume anyone
in the world is asleep, other than you,
is arrogant. When– we look out
and judge people, companies, animals,
as anything– Until we understand them,
we cannot understand ourselves. Sentient beings. And there’s no rest
until that’s realized. Little rest. But the ego
never sleeps, you know? OK, precious,
let’s look at 4. “I need the meat industry
to start to listen to scientific research that shows that eating animals
is no longer necessary nor moral.” I have more, but– “The meat industry
should make a shift”– So, let’s wait for (the interpreter)– So, you need– -Read it again, so we’ll get it all down–
-Right. “I need the meat industry to”– “the meat industry to start
to listen to scientific research So, let’s slow down,
“scientific research”– “that shows that eating animals
is no longer necessary nor moral– because there are so many
other sources of protein.” And also, in the scientific research,
there’s all this stuff about animals being mmm– a lot like us, actually, in their behavior
and in their emotional lives and– -Yes.
-That kind of stuff. But we’re assuming
they’re unenlightened. -I’m sorry, what’s that?
-I’m assuming they’re unenlightened. Right. So, it’s putting your own identity
onto sentient beings. Mmm– You’re at war
with sentient beings. Sentient beings,
for all you know. But the only way I know to understand
is to be the slaughtered. Or to meditate on that moment
in time of the slaughter, until I understand. I was in a public discussion,
recently, with hunters, a roomful of hunters. And they were all very nice people,
which was really confusing. (laughter from the audience) And one of them actually
invited me to go hunting with him. And I told him that, I mean– that “That doesn’t seem
like a fun day out to me at all.” And I told him that
if there wasn’t any bigger purpose, other than, you know,
like making a documentary out of it, or some kind of way
we could broadcast that situation, I wouldn’t do it,
because I didn’t see any reason for that. And that makes me– What you just said
makes me think of that. And also– what you said yesterday,
about actually– going to the slaughterhouse. And, even though,
you know, that’s sort of– the last thing I wanna do– I do see how that would be– you know, sensible and fair At worst, it would give you
another Worksheet. At best, it would give you
another Worksheet. “You need to be happy, you need the meat industry
to start to listen to scientific research that shows that eating animals
is no longer necessary nor moral.” So, for that reason, “You need the meat industry
to listen to scientific research”– -For me to be happy?
-For you to be happy. No. -That’s a– -It’s easier.
-“No” is a big answer. So, “You need the meat industry to listen to
scientific research.” That specific research. How do you react, what happens,
when you believe the thought? I feel, I feel– Before you can feel, you have
to see images of past/future. So, notice how the mind reacts
when you think the thought, “The meat industry needs
to listen to scientific research.” It’s like, I wanna slap, you know?
I wanna– I wanna slap
all the meat industry. And, to me,
consumers are part of that. I would just wanna slap them
in the face with all these– So, you see an image of them
in your head, of the future. And you see you
just slapping them, convincing them. -Right.
-OK? Yes, the sense of, like– Right– That righteous, “I-know” mind
to these very dense people. And then, you see images of a past
of all those animals being slaughtered. So, you have that and then you have this
and you’re justified over here– Yes, very much. Looking down on them, in a shaming kind of way. OK? So, you see those images
and then you feel. You understand? That past/future is always going.
You can’t believe what you think, otherwise. You see images,
past/future, you believe your thoughts
on to them, the words on to them, and you see that
in your mind’s eye and, then, while you’re
entertaining that movie, that is the cause
of your emotions. So, then you feel. I mean, just aggression. Yeah, you become aggressive. Yes. And it’s this aggression that– I feel– it’s not only
in this area but– like this aggression,
this aggressiveness I get when I feel
that people are ignoring facts. Like, that is just sort of
this whole pedestal of righteousness. Like, it’s not just
that I feel that way, but it’s like, tchh-tchh, you know? So, that really emblazes this– So, you become a radical. I feel radically right. Yes. -A radical.
-Right. All radicals feel right. (laughs from the audience) -Good point.
-Yeah. You can be right and wise,
or right and radical. One, we can hear and learn from. The other we shut down, we lock up. And that’s perfect. Those of us
that are radical like that, when they lock us up
it gives us time to consider. Or we become more radical
and more bitter. So, I love that
we can do this from here. The life of a radical– is– it’s painful, it’s lonely– Right. It’s so hurtful to your life– and welfare. Mm-hmm, definitely. -You’re in a slaughterhouse.
-Right. And, also, I honestly
don’t like that part of me. -I mean it’s not–
-You’re lost. You don’t know
what else to do. Anything less than that feels like you’re just succumbing,
like the rest of them, which is something, maybe, you’ve sworn
you would never let happen to you. “I need the meat industry
to start to listen to scientific research that shows that eating animals
is no longer necessary nor moral.” Turn around. “I need me”– “I need me
to start to listen to”– “scientific research”– “that shows that”– -“eating animals”–
-“animals is necessary and moral.” To some of us. -Yeah.
-To some of us. I know them. -I have–
-But if you’re asleep, you can under– in some areas, you can understand
why we’re asleep in some areas. But I also know people who,
like me, really hold that as a real part
of their belief system. I can kind of understand
why they– -Eat meat.
-I don’t agree with it, but– I understand, I mean,
it’s a conscious thing for them– -To eat meat.
-Right, yeah. I’m not sure if there’s a lot of scientific
research that would back it up but– Oh, go to the Internet. Just search– –what’s the word?–
“advantages” of eating meat. Great. And then look at
all the scientific studies. It’s all there. It’s nothing that,
maybe, you would believe, and a lot to contemplate, but– Right. -So, “I need me”–
-Right. “to start to listen to scientific
research on the internet that shows that eating animals is necessary”– -and moral.
-“and moral.” -So, start doing your research.
-Mm-hmm. Because if you visit
a slaughterhouse, they’re gonna give you
all that research, if you’re not so radical
that you’re really listening. And I see you
as a good listener. But they’re going to want
to give you all that research and you’re going to be
caught up. So, you’re gonna be
on the same page. You’re gonna have
an understanding there– that will– You understand? I don’t want to be at war
with what people say. I want to be awake to what
they’re thinking and believing and why. Because, in a conversation like that
when I’m holding my own values, there’s power. It’s true. -OK?
-Yes. That way, I don’t shame myself,
I don’t shame them, I don’t shame animals. Yeah. Research, research, research. In other words,
education, education, if you’re going
to take this on. Be as wise about
the advantages of meat as they are. Mm-hmm. Otherwise you’re cheating yourself
and you’re cheating animals. -Yeah.
-If this is your cause. So, I have one.
Would you like to hear it? Very much. “I don’t need the meat industry to start listening to scientific research that shows
that not eating animals– that eating animals is no
longer necessary or moral,” because they’re going
to have you, educated you. And that doesn’t mean
they’re gonna stop. But that’s our best. And when
we are at our best, there’s satisfaction
because we know– That’s it.
But it doesn’t stop us. We continue to get still and to tap into that wisdom
that goes beyond anger and righteous justification. “You need them
to make a shift.” Turn it around. “I need to make a shift.” -Yeah.
-Yes. From seeing them
not as an enemy, but as someone worthy of– someone– -Right. As someone–
-that doesn’t need to make a shift. Yeah. Mm-hmm, yeah– There’s nothing
more powerful than wisdom. Let’s look at the next one. “The meat industry
is cruel, unethical, unrealistic, unsustainable, a waking nightmare, a collective cultural shadow.” So, would you read it again?
“The meat industry is cruel, unethical, unrealistic, unsustainable”– So, you have your answer
and unsustainable. It will come to an end. Done. I’m just imagining the state
of the world when that happens, but– Well, you want it stopped. Right, yeah. -It’s unsustainable.
-Yeah. And I do– not only believe,
but, also, when I look back historically to things,
I do feel confident that it’s– moving in the right direction,
meaning, my direction, in this case, which is always
the right direction, obviously, but– but I– So, “When it comes to the meat industry,
my thoughts about the meat industry are”– “my thoughts about the meat
industry are cruel, unethical, unrealistic, unsustainable, a waking nightmare and a collective
cultural shadow.” Definitely. So it’s as though
you’re one of those– one of those animals
on the conveyor belt, just– Let’s look
at the next one. So, my– Did–
Yeah, let’s look at the next one. “I don’t ever want to see animals
being tortured, separated, transported
in unacceptable ways, murdered for our ignorant
few moments of sensatory pleasure.” OK. So– “I don’t ever want
to see animals separated.” Mm-hmm. What does that
have to do with– that part
of your mind? What do you think,
what do you see in your mind’s eye, when you think, “I don’t want
animals to be separated”? So, I see, for example, baby calves, baby cows being immediately
separated from their mothers, you know, for the milk
and all the kind of stuff, and all these ways that their social
structures are being ignored and broken. Mmm– So, that’s what I see
with “separated.” That’s what I meant. And do you feel
empathy for the calf? Is that any part of it? Yeah. It just feels very, again,
unethical to me to separate a mother from her baby. But, beyond ethics, do you feel
a kind of grief for the– -Yeah.
-Good. So, again, when you’re doing
a Worksheet like this, you do– the calf. The calf. You become the calf. And you meditate
as the calf. Watching the mother,
being separated. And, then, what you’re thinking
and believing about how you need
your mother, that’s a Worksheet. And it’s not done
until you’re comfortable in that, in being separated. And then, you may better understand
the mind of an enlightened animal. Because you become one. So, “I’m willing to”– “I’m willing to see animals
being tortured, separated, transported
in unacceptable ways, and murdered for our ignorant few
moments of sensatory pleasure.” “I look forward to”– “I look forward to
animals being tortured, separated, transported
in unacceptable ways and murdered for our ignorant few
moments of sensory pleasure.” If you– If you really sit in this Work,
and you go to a slaughterhouse, and you’re educated, and as up-to-date
as you can possibly be with how they see it
and how they condone it, it can be
one powerful little– You are what we’ve got. You are what we’ve got. And thank you for your passion
and your enlightenment. Thank you. So, let’s get some feedback. I felt everything the same, and it could as well
have been my Worksheet. And I’ve done The Work on it
many, many times. But it doesn’t stick, because I’m so afraid that
if I really see it as the illusion, that I’m abandoning
the animals, that I’m just as guilty. Do you see her
abandoning the cause? -No.
-I don’t either. And when you said, like the meditation,
“become the animal,” I became or I envisioned
being an animal being skinned alive, as I’ve seen in videos. And it took a while, but then, I could feel the inside of the animal. It was so peaceful, and such a big love. And, first,
I felt such a contrast to the horrible person
I’ve been for the past 20 years, because I feel like I have to shame
people, I have to judge them. Otherwise,
I’d be abandoning them. So, that felt like
such a contrast. -And when I let that love sink in–
-So, let’s slow down for the interpreters. Sorry, yes. And as I felt like,
being that animal, as I let that love sink in, it was as if it was saying to me,
“It’s OK to let it go.” Like, as if I was
granted permission to let go of this burden that I have to make people
more aware, that I have to judge them. That’s like,
that I have to do that. It felt like I was being given
the permission. And the reassurance
that it was OK. And I can still feel
that those underlying beliefs, like– “If I accept this,
then I’m doing the same,” I feel they’re still present, but I now have this exercise
to go back to. Katie: Yes, you do. And I’m also from Holland, and maybe we can go together
to the slaughterhouse. Yeeeh– I would never thought
I would have said that. -So, thank you so much.
-Thank you. You know, self-realization,
in my experience, has no value until it’s lived. And so, it’s a privilege
to witness both of you. Thank you. Because we wake up– enlightenment– is completely user-friendly. We don’t become complacent in it,
as you speak so clearly to. The freer we get–
It’s like, our values don’t shift. Our values don’t shift. It’s just that
we’re no longer at war with anyone or anything,
because we understand. And we understand,
because we were radical for all we know, and hateful
and shaming than they are. I don’t know– but that much of it in me
is too much. Because I have Work to do
and that’s gonna stop me. It’s gonna slow me down. It’s unnecessary
to the enlightened mind. Yes. I have a dog,
which I like very much. And she’s very old
and the veterinarian doctor said she should get meat
from the slaughterhouse. And the slaughterhouse
in my city, for me, is like an area
of concentration camp. And I went there by car,
singing mantras, crying. And in the radio
there was also polka music. And I came there and they prepared it
for dogs and other animals, the rest of the bones
and these little pieces, and you can get them
very cheap. And I went inside, and there are lots
of refugees, like Africans, people who have not much money. And they go
to this place to buy meat. Every second sentence was from
Muslim persons, “No pork? No pork?”. The slaughter person
at the castle, he was very proud. For me, it was like, they are celebrating Christmas. There was a feeling
in the air of celebration. And I noticed,
and it made me humble. And I went back in my car
with the meat for my dog. And I go there more
often times now, to get this. And, again and again, I see their celebration
and there’s also happiness. I don’t eat meat,
I don’t want to eat meat, but for the animals
who died, this party, afterwards,
this celebration, this– I can’t express
how proud the people are, and how happy
they are to get the meat. The Africans
counting their money, “Oh, I get this amount
of meat, there.” They’re proud.
It’s very impressive. Education. Education. Yes. German, “Deutsch”. (in German) Many thanks for your Worksheet I think
I could have written that, very similarly. (in German) And maybe I’m even more crazy
than you because I do eat meat. (in German) And, recently,
in my work situation, I noticed that one of my customers
is a hunter. (in German) And recently I asked him,
quite inquiringly, what is it like to be a hunter
and to go hunting. (in German) And I just sat
and listened. (in German) I was very impressed by the normality
and the “It’s-OK” attitude. (in German) And also by the very, very big respect
that he has for the animal. (in German) And now I think I’m going to call him
and go with him on hunt, maybe. (in German) Many, many thanks. Yes. (in French) I haven’t been eating meat
for many years and I’m allergic. (in French) Allergic to anything
that may happen in slaughterhouses. (in French) And for many years I tried
to convince people by doing war, (in French) without knowing
that I was at war. (in French) I tried to make them feel guilty.
I was manipulative about it. (in French) And not so long ago, I was invited
by one of my aunts for a meal. (in French) So, I went to a farm.
And in my family, we kill. (in French) So, she cooked a leg of lamb
and I wasn’t able to eat any of it. (in French) She gave me a hard time
because I didn’t eat any of it– (in French) and because I didn’t want
to put gravy on my potatoes. (in French) So, we had an argument.
I went home, (in French) I wrote a Judge-Your-Neighbor
Worksheet. (in French) I saw that,
for many years, I was waging the exact,
same war, but in the other position. (in French) I can’t go into a slaughterhouse.
That, I’m not able to, that’s where it stops. (in French) I often have visitors in my house
and now I’m able to cook dishes with love. (in French) Those dishes are meatless, however I don’t try to demonstrate
or teach anything with them. (in French) This is how I contribute.
I give without putting meat in them. (in French) And I show my relatives, my friends, that it’s possible
to eat without adding animal protein, (in French) without putting
animal corpses in the food. (in French) This is how
I found peace within me. So, I did this Work that– that I see is
The Work you’re doing. And, as you were talking, it just occurred to me that– I don’t eat meat. And I’ve never, to my mind, ever said anything to my children
or grandchildren about that. I just don’t eat meat. And as you were talking,
it occurred to me that, of five grandchildren –I think this is correct–
four of them are vegan. and– two of my children
don’t eat meat. And I’ve never said–
It just– And I’d love to hear
their experience of it, if I have, in fact,
said anything. But it’s just not like me.
It’s enough that I’m aware. And so, if I were going
to do a cause and start at home, and– I’ve done that, and when I look
at you, you’ve done the same, you’re living that out, you start with–
you don’t eat it. And then just you have no idea
how many lives you’ve touched. Who knows? So– Yes. (in German) (in German) I eat meat. (in German) I eat vegetables. (in German) Interpreter: Could you say
that again, please? (in German) And I feel with people
who are being told to hate each other and fight against each other. (in German) I don’t know what a cauliflower
feels when I eat it. (in German) And I don’t know what a little calf
feels when it is being killed. (in German) What I can
see in my experience, (in German) there’s so much love there,
as one of the women said, as she moved
into the animal. (in German) That, with our complicated thinking
we produce a lot of sorrow. (in German) And that animals
and plants have feelings. I do know that, and that they more directly
experience that and love much better than I do. (in German) So, should I not eat plants anymore?
Should I not eat animals anymore? Should I not be with people
that I’m at war? I don’t know. Thank you. To assume anything
or anyone is less wise or aware as any other human being
is definitely something to look at.